From TikTok to Checkout - How Social Commerce is Revolutionizing the Supply Chain with Wes Duquette, ShipBob

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[00:00:38] With social commerce as such a virality that can happen to brands really quickly before they know it,

[00:00:44] you'd be surprised how many of those early on successful online brands have never put true kind

[00:00:50] of barcoding on their product. And certainly from a 3PL standpoint, somebody who warehouses

[00:00:54] products, that's a challenge. But it's really a blocker to going any further in some of the channels

[00:01:00] those brands want to go into. So certainly the retail channel is a big part of it,

[00:01:04] other marketplaces and things of that nature. And so some of this early on preparation around

[00:01:09] things as boring as it might seem as barcoding and making sure that you have the right

[00:01:14] authentic barcodes really make for a much easier scalability once you get that call,

[00:01:20] once you get that opportunity. And once you find out that something's really working for your brand,

[00:01:25] you can accelerate much further. Hello and welcome to the Next Level Supply Chain with GS1 US,

[00:01:31] a podcast in which we explore the mind bending world of global supply chains,

[00:01:35] covering topics such as automation, innovation, unique identity and more. I'm your co-host,

[00:01:42] Reed. And I'm Liz. And welcome to the show.

[00:01:44] We just had a great conversation with Wes from ShipBob. Such a cool guy and an amazing perspective

[00:01:55] on the supply chain. He covers key tips and tricks on helping your business grow. Should you

[00:02:01] still be focusing online or brick and mortar or somewhere in between? How businesses get themselves

[00:02:09] into physical retail space and the strategies on how to see continued success. And he dives

[00:02:14] into what he thinks the future of selling in retail will look like. It is a fascinating

[00:02:19] conversation. Hey, Wes, welcome to the show. Great to be here. We're really looking forward

[00:02:25] to the conversation. You and I had a great conversation a few weeks ago and we probably

[00:02:30] could have talked for an hour. So here's our opportunity to go a little bit deeper.

[00:02:34] Before we get into it, just a quick introduction, who you are, what your background is

[00:02:39] and most importantly, what your role is and what ShipBob does.

[00:02:43] Absolutely. Be happy to. So yes, Wes Dukat, I am the vice president and general manager of B2B

[00:02:48] in retail at ShipBob. I have a history in e-commerce. A lot of my time has been spent

[00:02:52] over the last decade plus in e-commerce and SaaS technologies. And a big portion of my

[00:02:57] career has been around customer facing and customer leading teams. And being in front of

[00:03:03] customers, I love because I get to understand about their aspirations. How do they want to

[00:03:08] grow their business? What does it take to get to the next level? And at ShipBob, that's exactly

[00:03:12] what I do. So my team truly is what helps our merchant brands become Omnichannel. So

[00:03:17] I think Omnichannel is a pretty big buzzword thrown around, but ShipBob as a business is

[00:03:22] a tech enabled 3PL. And what we do is we help small and medium businesses have this

[00:03:28] enterprise level supply chain power. And so those capabilities to truly go up against the

[00:03:33] big CPG brands. So ShipBob as a force within both the US and globally, we run about 50

[00:03:40] warehouses in our network. And so for our merchant brands, we both hold, prepare,

[00:03:44] ship products, not just in kind of single direct consumer packages, which we certainly do,

[00:03:49] but also bulk shipping across the world to retailers everywhere. So a lot of my career

[00:03:53] has been just around helping brands grow and ShipBob, I get to do a big part of that.

[00:03:57] I want to jump right into that helping brands grow. So with your experience and seeing

[00:04:04] different facets of all this, what are some of the key steps or key things that businesses need

[00:04:10] to do to take themselves to the next level? This can differ a bit by the category that

[00:04:15] you're in, but there are a number of things from a structure standpoint and some of those

[00:04:20] next steps and aspirations that I see successful brands doing early on, even before they become

[00:04:25] big. And one of the biggest pieces is planning to become multi-channel. It is under this concept

[00:04:32] and umbrella of omni-channel, but most brands begin selling online. It's most often a direct

[00:04:37] to consumer brand that is started very small, often in somebody's garage. They get to kind of

[00:04:42] those next stages and steps, but the most successful brands I've seen are planning those

[00:04:47] next two or three steps ahead and starting to be strategic about what channels they will

[00:04:52] grow into. And those channels can be things like retailers and marketplaces and how you sell on

[00:04:57] Amazon, all of those types of things, but there's a bunch of other areas where brands have found

[00:05:03] really great growth around new markets. How do you think about taking that step to become global?

[00:05:08] Understanding your demand in these different regions and what are the next places you could

[00:05:12] start to not just distribute your products to, but also house in different countries. So those

[00:05:17] types of things are a really big part of that next step to being successful. And then the other

[00:05:23] big thing that a lot of my brands originally forget about, but very quickly realize is a

[00:05:27] necessity here is how do you make sure that the infrastructure of your business, both physically,

[00:05:32] so with your product, your packaging, those types of things, your supply chain network,

[00:05:36] and then your back office systems, things like that, how do you make sure that those can

[00:05:40] support your next scale and phase of growth? And a lot of that seems like a lot to eat

[00:05:45] and digest early on, but usually when I walk brands through it is think about that next step

[00:05:50] in your strategy from a channel standpoint. Start to make some inroads within those channels.

[00:05:55] And then from there you'll start to understand how well your brand plays within there and what

[00:05:59] other iterations need to happen. You made it seem very simple, but you did point out that

[00:06:05] there are a lot of pieces to this. So I just want to double click into this just a little

[00:06:09] bit more to make sure I'm really understanding it because a lot of times like, oh yeah,

[00:06:14] it's easy. It's still work, right? We still have work to do, but I think what you're pointing out

[00:06:19] is have a plan, have a destination and then ask yourself at each step along the way,

[00:06:25] does this help me get to that destination? We've seen it all like, hey, I'm going to start off.

[00:06:30] I meet with companies all the time. We're pure B2C. We're direct to consumer. And I'm like,

[00:06:36] that's great. That's fantastic. What are you going to do when Walgreens calls? What are

[00:06:41] you going to do when CVS calls? What are you going to do when Target calls? Oh, well,

[00:06:45] we'll deal with it then. And they might be set up for it, but they might not. And you're talking

[00:06:49] these multi-channels and you brought it a step further into global, right? And packaging.

[00:06:55] You said the word packaging. I wrote it down. A lot of people, and I know Liz is so excited

[00:07:01] about that aspect, but that is something we actually see. You see different packaging

[00:07:06] and different requirements in different parts of the world.

[00:07:09] Yeah, for sure. You know, it's funny that packaging actually ends up being one of those

[00:07:14] areas. So there's a couple things around, I put it under this broader kind of physical,

[00:07:19] tangible part of your business is the packaging, things around barcoding, of course,

[00:07:24] especially in the GS1 world, it's something that we often refer our new SMB, small medium

[00:07:31] businesses to partners like GS1 to make sure that they're getting authentic setup for what

[00:07:37] they're doing before they even get that call from Walgreens, as you mentioned, Reid.

[00:07:41] And so one of the big things that we've started to do early on in the life cycle of a brand

[00:07:46] is to mention a lot of those questions around have you considered or have you thought of

[00:07:51] with social commerce as such a virality that can happen to brands really quickly before they

[00:07:56] know it. You'd be surprised how many of those early on successful online brands have never put

[00:08:02] true kind of barcoding on their product. And certainly from a 3PL standpoint, somebody who

[00:08:06] warehouses products, that's a challenge, but it's really a blocker to going any further in some

[00:08:12] of the channels those brands want to go into. So certainly the retail channel is a big part

[00:08:16] of it, other marketplaces and things of that nature. And so some of this early on

[00:08:21] preparation around things as boring as it might seem as barcoding and making sure that you

[00:08:25] have the right authentic barcodes really make for a much easier scalability once you get that

[00:08:32] call, once you get that opportunity. And once you find out that something's really working

[00:08:36] for your brand, you can accelerate much further. And not having to go backwards to change

[00:08:42] your packaging or get that foundational information barcode or something as simple as product

[00:08:47] dimensions to go back and have to house that somewhere. Well, I know I have it on an Excel

[00:08:52] spreadsheet because I emailed it to somebody. But to really get that right, you're right. It

[00:08:57] isn't fun or exciting, but it's just the basis of how commerce needs to work.

[00:09:03] Well, you said something interesting with social commerce. That's TikTok, right? I have 14

[00:09:09] year olds. I'm assuming social commerce is TikTok or for me, Instagram and the middle aged

[00:09:15] lady people doing makeup. That's social commerce. Would you call that the same as online or

[00:09:21] different? So there's certainly a similarity in the strategy from a brand standpoint and from

[00:09:26] a fulfillment standpoint, right? The end game with a lot of that is single packages going to

[00:09:32] end consumers. And often it's an online way, of course, to interact with a brand.

[00:09:37] There is such a different approach or strategy that a lot of brands are using there.

[00:09:42] As you mentioned, Instagram shopping through Instagram has been pretty limited. You know,

[00:09:47] if you think about the scale of what Instagram truly is and the users truly shopping on

[00:09:52] Instagram is fairly limited, especially compared to what we're now seeing in TikTok

[00:09:56] shop land, which is just a whole new level of volume and a whole new level of activity going

[00:10:03] on. But yeah, many brands are thinking of those differently. So between their true direct

[00:10:08] consumer and what they think of as their online channel and offshoot is certainly social

[00:10:13] commerce. And the reason why they think about them, and I suggest to think about those differently

[00:10:17] is there are only a few places you can fully control the experience. Often your dot com

[00:10:23] website is that place. Now, when you start to think about being in other channels, whether it

[00:10:28] be social commerce, retail on Amazon, there is a level of control you can still have. You

[00:10:34] can still have that brand identity, but you become much more dependent on different factors

[00:10:40] there. So a very big part of social commerce right now is influencers. Those are really great ways

[00:10:45] for eyeballs and driving traffic, but you do lose some of that control ability. And so the further

[00:10:51] you get away from that direct consumer dot com site, the less control you have over the full

[00:10:57] brand experience, if you will. That's where you start to expand your possibilities when

[00:11:00] you think about scale and reach certain. And is online still the place to be? Is it still

[00:11:06] cool? It's funny between cool and economics, it's becoming less of the place to be. So I think

[00:11:12] probably everybody's familiar with from a pandemic standpoint, the heyday in a sense for

[00:11:18] online commerce was 2020 2021. And certainly because of the way consumers were forced to shop,

[00:11:26] you saw a massive upswing, of course, in the amount of activity going on online,

[00:11:31] the amount of direct to consumer type of activity. And so that's where a lot of our brands and small

[00:11:36] medium businesses came into the market. Many of them were either forced online or chose that as

[00:11:42] the path. And it became a really big part of their business and a really big part of the

[00:11:46] structure. What we're seeing now though, is because in the last two to three years,

[00:11:50] you've really seen a degradation of the economics indirect to consumer. Most of my

[00:11:55] brands from two to three years ago, have seen a much higher acquisition cost for any direct to

[00:12:02] consumer new customer. There's a lot of factors in there. There's things around the way Facebook

[00:12:06] does its marketing, the way that Apple has changed the iOS rules, all of those types of

[00:12:10] things have made it challenging to be as targeted with your marketing spend in the direct

[00:12:16] to consumer space. And so what it's really driven is this need to look for additional

[00:12:21] channels and you know, Reed, as we were talking early on is that idea of where do you

[00:12:24] want to go and what's your omni-channel strategy going to be. A lot of our brands have just been

[00:12:29] forced to find another way to grow online is certainly still a viable channel to have,

[00:12:36] but we're finding for most of our brands, it's certainly not the only channel you can have.

[00:12:39] And so now we're starting to see this need to have a variety and diversity around channels.

[00:12:44] Certainly Amazon still is a really big player for many of our brands, but even in the last

[00:12:49] 12 to 18 months, we've seen a much different economics depending on the category you sell in.

[00:12:55] There's a lot of things happening with seller fees. There's a lot of things happening with

[00:12:59] fulfilled by Amazon fees that have really changed. And so the economics are a lot

[00:13:03] different for some categories and it's causing a lot of our brands to step back and say, gosh,

[00:13:08] how much do we want to promote these channels? How much do we want to make sure that we have

[00:13:12] a diversity across another number of channels and a really big place that we see brands

[00:13:17] returning to now is retail. And I think a big part of that is we see a repeatable economics in

[00:13:23] retail while it's often not as beneficially economical as maybe your direct to consumer

[00:13:28] channel might have been, it is something that really can be repeatable. And as businesses start

[00:13:33] to set up their supply chain and they're planning for each year, retail is a really

[00:13:37] good place to start to make that foray into repeatability. It's so interesting. So the

[00:13:42] customer acquisition costs, the CAC, don't like it when they call those out in the startup and

[00:13:47] financial meetings since like, what is this number? What is that number? But this is

[00:13:51] something that we've heard of honestly going back mid 2023 that the market is so fluid.

[00:13:58] What do I mean by that? Kind of hitting on what you said, Wes, is that Amazon has certain

[00:14:03] knobs and levers they're pulling. Google has certain knobs and levers they're pulling.

[00:14:07] So these environments that you can't control, but they control how the masses see you are

[00:14:12] changing so that get rich quick side hustle. I'm going to use the 3PL and I'm going to do

[00:14:20] a couple of things in direct to consumer. You can still do that, but your cost to acquire

[00:14:26] customers has significantly gone up because the game is changing. Is this something you've seen

[00:14:33] the last 20 years or is this a moment in time type of thing? I kind of have my own opinion on

[00:14:38] this, but it's the cost of doing business almost. It's like you don't set it and forget it.

[00:14:43] You set it and you watch it and you tweak it and you're constantly trying to get ahead of

[00:14:48] the game and like hockey. Where's the puck going to be not where is it right now?

[00:14:53] Yeah, which is why in Reed, I think there's a moment in time aspect to it. So I think

[00:14:57] maybe we're all familiar with that graphic that shows online commerce activity and how it

[00:15:02] shot up in 2020. It shot way up in 2020 and has started to level out. But as you take a step back

[00:15:08] and look at the last 15 and 20 years, well that's kind of its similar trajectory it's been on.

[00:15:14] So there was an anomaly four years ago in 2020 and it lasted for a bit of time.

[00:15:21] But now certainly we are getting to this place where having a diverse set of options from

[00:15:26] a channel standpoint is really important. And kind of to your point of where the puck's going

[00:15:29] to go. This is why many of our brands start down these paths of looking at different

[00:15:34] marketplaces and retailers to start to make sure that they can iterate within those channels.

[00:15:39] I think many different brands have opinions or experiences in different channels and how it did

[00:15:45] or did not work for their brand. But all of those came through that trial and error process

[00:15:50] in a way and understanding where their buyers are, how their buyers like to buy and making

[00:15:55] sure that they leave those opportunities open. And again, kind of to our points before,

[00:15:59] how are you structuring your business today to make sure that you can pivot within those

[00:16:04] different areas? And then as one of the channels starts to catch fire,

[00:16:08] how are you able to go through and say, gosh I need a 5X or 10X my manufacturing process?

[00:16:15] Same thing I talk about with a lot of our merchants supply chain. What if you had to 10X

[00:16:19] your orders tomorrow? What would you do? Is your manufacturing ready? Well let's start

[00:16:24] to get to that place where we are. From a 3PL standpoint, we're very much in a scenario

[00:16:29] from ShipBob where we can tune up and tune down what we need to do within the facility.

[00:16:33] But it all depends on what happens upstream and in some cases downstream for these brands

[00:16:38] to make sure that's possible. Yeah, we've heard from some of our other guests when you're

[00:16:42] selling online, even if you say hey we're going to sell only on Shopify in our own stores

[00:16:48] and we're not going to do anything on Amazon, you still need to register with Amazon

[00:16:52] to protect your brand. That was something that was really eye-opening to me.

[00:16:56] And now in January of 2023, there was not the TikTok shop environment but now here are a year

[00:17:04] later and they have it. So it's constantly changing. I want to ask you this, you mentioned

[00:17:08] it earlier that retail, physical retail, which I think some people are going to roll

[00:17:14] their eyes and be like what are you crazy? Like I haven't gone to a store in a while.

[00:17:18] Amazon guy comes three times a day now, not even once a day. But you talked about, think about

[00:17:24] all the channels you want to go to but what are some business tips that are top of mind for

[00:17:29] folks that have been in the D2C direct-to-consumer space or online only? How do they get ready

[00:17:36] for retail and should they proactively go after it? That's a question that I have

[00:17:43] personally, right? Because a lot of times it's like we had no idea we were ever going to do

[00:17:46] that but they came to us and so we took advantage of it. And then the person next to them is like,

[00:17:51] well they didn't come to us but we went to them and we're doing just as well.

[00:17:54] So we talked about getting your product ready, getting your supply chain ready.

[00:17:58] I think one of the really big things is, and Reid it'll tap into a little bit of where do

[00:18:01] you want to go and kind of what's your end game is, really starting to understand how retail

[00:18:06] can play into the business growth that you want. And the reason I say it like that,

[00:18:10] those two different scenarios you mentioned happen very frequently with my brands. One is

[00:18:14] we tried really hard. We've been knocking on Walmart and Target and Walgreens doors. We've

[00:18:20] been really trying to get in or the other version is we've got such a great brand following,

[00:18:24] Target came to us. And the latter has been much more advantageous early on for our brands.

[00:18:30] And I'll tell you why because you have to remember that any time you're going into

[00:18:34] a relationship with a retailer, there is truly a negotiation aspect that does happen, right?

[00:18:40] And so it's very much like the laws of all negotiations in the sense that if you are

[00:18:45] desperate to be on the shelves, there is a chance that you'll be in a scenario where it's not the

[00:18:51] best scenario for your business economically. I've had this happen a lot of times with

[00:18:55] merchants that get into larger big box that start to do very low margin type pieces and

[00:19:00] issues they sell in. And they find as they ramp all of their different supply chain needs

[00:19:05] from a manufacturing standpoint, right? And all these different types of things that

[00:19:09] they're truly not getting the economy of scale, they thought through those retailers.

[00:19:13] And so having that planned idea as to when you go into the conversation with a buyer

[00:19:18] from retail is where do your economics need to be for it to be right for your brand?

[00:19:24] There is some schools of thought that say any volume is good volume. That can be true

[00:19:29] depending on where you're at within the growth trajectory. But if you've gotten to a place

[00:19:33] where you know your economics, certainly know that as you start to have those conversations

[00:19:38] with retailers, there is a negotiation that happens. There is a number that they have a range

[00:19:43] of what they'll pay for the margin within your product and know where you need to be with that.

[00:19:49] Yes, you will get some economy of scales, you grow the business likely,

[00:19:52] but you want to make sure that those channels are places that you're going to continue to fill

[00:19:57] because surely as you sign that agreement with the Walmarts and Targets of the world,

[00:20:00] their expectation is when they order, they get a full amount of fulfillment.

[00:20:05] That will at times make you starve other channels. So just make sure that even if you're not ready

[00:20:10] from a full manufacturing standpoint, you're getting what you want economically out of each

[00:20:15] channel because at times you'll have to prioritize those retailer channels.

[00:20:19] You just hit a little thread of these are the nuances of the business that people don't

[00:20:25] know until you've experienced it. And that's when you have a major player and you have

[00:20:30] great relationships with say seven other channels, right? Or three other channels,

[00:20:35] but they're not major major channels, but you've been with them for four years,

[00:20:39] you get good relationships, everything is steady and then all of a sudden the big fish comes

[00:20:44] along and it's like we want in. And then they ask an order and the minimum order is four

[00:20:49] times more than what you've been producing. And now you're pulling from all the inventory

[00:20:54] now your other ones, it's like they're losing sale opportunities as well.

[00:20:59] Is that a common experience that happens that you see? Or is these onesie twosies?

[00:21:04] Or is this like, no, it happens like almost everybody.

[00:21:07] Yeah. So my experience is probably a bit specific as to who it happens to. Typically,

[00:21:14] if you're Procter and Gamble, that's often not happening to you, right? You've had the

[00:21:18] long-term relationship with the Target and Walmart of the world. Because my subset of

[00:21:22] brands is often small and medium businesses. This is often one of the first forays into retail,

[00:21:29] or kind of these high volume channels, right? And so I don't know that I'll say it happens

[00:21:33] often, but it certainly is a scenario where as I talk with my merchants, I say make sure that

[00:21:39] you're ready to support the needs of that retailer. And that can be those big four,

[00:21:44] five, 10 X orders that come out of there. So it certainly happens more frequently to our

[00:21:49] small and medium brands. And usually it's in a good way. It means that you've gone from 500

[00:21:54] to 1500 doors within a big box retailer. That's a great scenario, right? But it doesn't always

[00:22:00] mean that you've planned and prepared for that from a manufacturing standpoint. So often when we

[00:22:05] are talking through brands that are starting to launch in retail, it is make sure you have

[00:22:09] a really good idea of the forecast and plan for success as well. Because when you do get

[00:22:13] to that place where hopefully you sell through in this test set that you get with a small

[00:22:17] amount of doors, well that's when it will really launch in and know kind of how big that range can

[00:22:23] be. Because those are the types of things that you may need to look at additional manufacturers,

[00:22:27] those types of things that come from co-packers. And so yeah, it is kind of having that idea of

[00:22:31] the possible as you start to go into those conversations and having a plan attack. And

[00:22:36] that's where buyers can usually be really good advocates, but know that they have a set of

[00:22:40] economics to keep and making sure that you're protective of your brand and your business is

[00:22:45] important. The scenario we just described, right? It's a hiccup. It's a big bump in the road for

[00:22:51] these SMBs. Is this something that's like when you go to the doctor, it's like, yeah, we see

[00:22:57] it all the time. You're going to feel terrible for a week and you'll get over it and you'll

[00:23:00] be stronger afterwards. Or is this like, oh, this is serious. If you get through it,

[00:23:06] you'll get through it. But if you don't, you're done. Or is it really like, well,

[00:23:10] really depends. And there's too many variables taking place. I'm just thinking of the folks

[00:23:15] that are sitting there going, you know, I want to start this business and I'm doing a little out

[00:23:18] of my garage and got to pay for the 3PL now and I'm thin cost, but I know if I do more volume,

[00:23:25] all these things are going through their head. And sometimes you're like, yeah,

[00:23:28] that's growth. And that's the small setback. And it's going to feel really painful,

[00:23:32] but just keep grinding through it, get to the other side. I think that's the direct question

[00:23:36] I have. Is this a common thing or is this, this is a make or break moment?

[00:23:41] Yeah, Reid. It's a fun question because for the most part, even if it is a make or break moment,

[00:23:47] there are ways to protect you get through these make or break moments. Right. And so

[00:23:51] I certainly have seen this with most retail launches for SMBs because what's happening is

[00:23:57] you're taking one or two channels. You've been in your online channel, your Amazon channel,

[00:24:02] and in some cases you're blowing all of that up within a few weeks of purchase orders. You're

[00:24:07] going to do your entire year's volume. And often you haven't set up your co-manufacturer.

[00:24:11] You haven't set up all these things upstream, raw materials, all those types of things maybe have

[00:24:16] not been set up. And so I do think there is what I used to think of as this zero to one,

[00:24:21] the first time you're doing it, there is this zero to one aspect that happens within

[00:24:26] the first large retailer launch you go to, but kind of to your point of we'll get through

[00:24:30] this and we'll get better at this. Now I see as my merchants go from first major big box retail

[00:24:36] launch into number two and three, they are still making these big jumps and they're still

[00:24:41] making some of these trade-off decisions of, gosh, I've got to actually slow down some of

[00:24:45] the marketing in my online channel because I won't have enough to serve that. But the

[00:24:51] extremity with which they're having to do that is lessened each time. Right. The real

[00:24:56] challenge becomes, I think initially what we find when you have to do these big manufacturing

[00:25:01] runs that you haven't prepared for or some of these rush type things is you will start

[00:25:06] moving product across the world and across the country at a much faster rate than you needed

[00:25:11] to previously. And so whereas longer into your life cycle, you'll be much more planned,

[00:25:16] you'll be looking at purchase orders and sending manufacturing requests six or 12 months

[00:25:20] out. Well, now you're looking at weeks out. These types of things need to be accelerated.

[00:25:25] And that's where a lot of the economics of it start to break down because now you're trying

[00:25:29] to go rush manufacturing. And then often I see merchants saying, gosh, instead of waiting for

[00:25:34] it to come across on the boat from my Asian manufacturer, I need to air freight some of

[00:25:38] this. And so now you're starting to degrade all that metrics there. And so to your point,

[00:25:43] it is something that can break your business. Right. But I see most businesses start to get

[00:25:47] into a really good forecasting mechanism where they say, all right, this is what things we're

[00:25:51] going to do as a one off. We're going to air freight this time because we need to make sure

[00:25:55] that we keep the big box retailer happy. Once you get past those points and you start to get

[00:26:00] to a normal sell through, usually you won't have those big spikes as much. And you will have

[00:26:05] brought your infrastructure to a place where you're having much more kind of repeatable

[00:26:10] type activity instead of these big spikes and jumps, if you will.

[00:26:13] I was going to ask you if there was a formula or a best practice when these SMBs are selling

[00:26:20] into retailers, but it feels like from all the things that you said, it really, there isn't

[00:26:25] a formula, like one formula you can give to an SMB. It really varies on their business and who

[00:26:33] they're talking to. Is that right? Yeah, it can look. I think that being able to

[00:26:38] guide your success in retail can start as early as you like. So one of the really

[00:26:43] interesting things, Liz, that I've seen from a lot of the big box retailers. So

[00:26:47] both Walmart and Target have these accelerator programs, which is Walmart's is called, I think,

[00:26:52] Walmart Star. Target has Target accelerators. And we've had a couple of our brands become

[00:26:57] alumni of those, which is, you know, one of them was a beauty brand that goes through

[00:27:00] this accelerator program. And so what I usually say is there's a multitude of ways to have that

[00:27:06] first step into retail. You can work through agencies and brokers, things of that nature.

[00:27:11] You can certainly go at your own or there's some of these kind of bespoke programs that

[00:27:16] are great. And so I think that that's one of the pieces that starts out at a multitude of different

[00:27:20] ways. But one of the things that I have seen similar Liz is once you're in the doors of retail,

[00:27:26] there's a couple kind of strategies that I've seen that can help with your success.

[00:27:31] We talked about knowing the economics of your business, certainly, so that you can make sure

[00:27:35] your business is successful from an economic standpoint. But the two or three things I usually

[00:27:39] have said is the first is make sure you're ready to support the needs of that retailer.

[00:27:43] We talked about having certainly what they order, but there's some really interesting things happening

[00:27:49] with a couple of big box that really want to start to provide exclusive type products

[00:27:55] to their buyers. So Target is pretty notorious in a good way for this, that they want to make

[00:28:00] sure that what you can buy at Target, you can't get everywhere else or every other big box store.

[00:28:04] And so one of the things I typically have said to a lot of our merchants going to Target is

[00:28:08] be ready to provide an exclusive skew. Be ready to think about how you differentiate something for

[00:28:14] not just this channel of retail, but potentially some of the retailers in there.

[00:28:18] It almost goes back to how you set up your entire product and packaging.

[00:28:22] Are you able to iterate and pivot on some of those to make a unique skew for Target or

[00:28:26] some other retailer? So those are some important things early on. And then one of

[00:28:30] the really interesting parts that I've seen successful SMBs in retail is how do they

[00:28:36] participate in the sell through of their items at retail? One of the really interesting things

[00:28:41] about these brands is usually they are very adept at some level of their own marketing.

[00:28:47] This is typically how they've grown the brand themselves. It's also why they use

[00:28:51] services like ShipBob as their 3PO, because they'll outsource a lot of things so they can

[00:28:55] focus on what they're good at often marketing and growing their brand. And one of the things

[00:29:00] I've always said is think about participating in how you're marketing to your buying base

[00:29:06] that you're now in retail. And so instead of sending those buyers potentially through

[00:29:10] that online channel like you've typically done, how about sending them to retailers?

[00:29:15] How about going into your retail store? You'll see a lot of influencers that now

[00:29:19] walk the floors of a retail and show here's our display at XYZ Big Box. Those are a lot

[00:29:25] of the things where you can start to be able to influence how successful you are in retail.

[00:29:31] And then very much that is when at the end of the quarter, at the end of the season,

[00:29:35] each time retailers go back and look at all of the performance, that's what they're going

[00:29:39] to replenish with. That's what they're going to put into additional stores and doors.

[00:29:42] So that's one of the really interesting places where these online brands that we have that

[00:29:47] often have a really good control of what can happen marketing wise with their small buying

[00:29:53] group. Well, if you can start to turn that into what happens in retail as well,

[00:29:57] you can really start to influence your ability to be successful.

[00:30:00] I could geek out on this all day long, but we're running out of time. I wanted to get

[00:30:04] through a couple of other things. What do you see happening in the not so distant future?

[00:30:11] Just around the corner. So we were heavy retail. Online has been around for 24 plus

[00:30:16] years. It's still the wild, wild west. TikTok has announced that they now have online commerce

[00:30:23] that's happening. Shopify has been up and down with the markets. Three years ago was

[00:30:28] the hottest thing out there. It's kind of coming back a little bit. These are normal growth

[00:30:33] types of things. You mentioned at the beginning of our podcast that retail, this is the spot.

[00:30:40] What do you see in the not so distant future next two to three years?

[00:30:44] Well, I'm seeing a lot of things trend towards this experience commerce. And it's

[00:30:51] starting to really mold with what's happening in social commerce. But experience commerce is

[00:30:56] becoming big, right? And TikTok has actually done it the best. Liz, we were talking a bit

[00:31:01] about Instagram and shopping through Instagram, which has certainly happened, but has not been

[00:31:07] done at a high volume and high growth quite yet. We are really seeing a lot of our brands

[00:31:13] tap into this experience commerce type piece, which is very much an offshoot of having

[00:31:21] all of these different brands in front of you from a bunch of different, not only social channels,

[00:31:26] but even retail and those types of things. And so we're seeing that a lot of that type of thing

[00:31:32] can be done through influencers. A lot of this type of thing can still be done through retail.

[00:31:37] And so connecting those two is probably the next frontier. But yeah, Reid, I see a really big

[00:31:42] plane here, which is probably still under the umbrella of social commerce, but it's very much

[00:31:47] that people being experienced within your brand, having influencers or other users of your brand

[00:31:53] out in front. And that being a very clickable and very actionable purchase that happens through

[00:31:59] there, whether it is truly through an online forum or some ability to do it in physical space.

[00:32:04] I can absolutely see that. I'm seeing a lot more QR code advertisements on TV, YouTube,

[00:32:11] websites where it's like not that much different than going to the website and filling it out,

[00:32:16] but having that code that takes you right to the spot to get product or the experience

[00:32:21] or the experience with product. What's old is new again, what's new is old again.

[00:32:27] Very true. So before we say goodbye, Reid and I always ask our guests two final questions.

[00:32:34] The first one is in your life, whether it's work, whether it's home life, what is the

[00:32:40] favorite technology that you're using right now? Well, Reid, this is funny. What's old

[00:32:45] is new again, is very much for me. My favorite new technology. I'm not sure if you've heard of the

[00:32:50] remarkable tablet. Remarkable tablet sure. And so what's old is new again, for me, I'm a very

[00:32:56] hands-on kind of learner, meaning I need to write it to learn it. I used to have notebooks

[00:33:01] and I tried to transition to figuring out how it would be electronically done. And should I

[00:33:06] just be typing this into one note? And so funny enough, I'm still doing all the types of

[00:33:10] writing I do, but being able to take that and put it into electronic form, that is kind of my

[00:33:16] new favorite technology right now. So yeah, Reid, I think it's an old is new again in a version for

[00:33:21] me when it comes to the tablet. Now it feels like writing on paper and I can put it all

[00:33:25] electronically as I need and put it off into an email that way. Yeah. And for those of you that

[00:33:29] haven't seen remarkable, I think they're up to their third version of it or at least their

[00:33:34] second version. It is a really cool tablet, very thin, very lightweight. It is really just for

[00:33:40] writing. I mean, you're not going to watch movies on this, but the writing experience on it is

[00:33:44] like writing in a notebook. I use an iPad and I write on it every day, but it's not the same

[00:33:50] experience as remarkable, hence their name. Okay. The last question in your lifetime,

[00:33:56] what is something that has just totally blown your mind and changed the way that you look at

[00:34:01] the world going forward? I think we're seeing it right now because it hasn't hit its pinnacle

[00:34:07] or peak. We talked a lot about TikTok shop. I think there is even more to happen in this space

[00:34:13] from somebody who does fulfillment as a business, understanding what can happen in that world

[00:34:19] and how many eyeballs can be driven and actions can be taken from that. And then

[00:34:24] what that means for us in a fulfillment center each and every day is we do some little

[00:34:28] TikTok fulfillment. It's very interesting. So I see it only as something that is still on its

[00:34:33] way up and has yet to kind of hit its pinnacle. So to me, it's fascinating to see something that

[00:34:39] can drive so much volume and has really engaged an entire population, whether it's people

[00:34:45] in their sixties and seventies I talked to that learn how to do things on TikTok.

[00:34:50] I've got a young daughter that is fascinated by making videos on there. So I think there's

[00:34:54] an interesting place here and somebody who's on the commerce side. I see that as maybe it won't

[00:34:59] only be TikTok. I think there'll be other places, but we're really seeing the application of how

[00:35:04] that can really connect into commerce and how it can change behaviors. Well, Wes, we can't thank

[00:35:08] you enough for spending the time with us here today. And we'd encourage people to check you

[00:35:12] out and ship Bob. And we know that our paths will cross again because we've seen you at a

[00:35:16] couple of conferences and speaking. So thank you. This has been truly a treat. Appreciate your

[00:35:22] time. Great to be a part of. Great to chat. Thank you for joining us on this episode of

[00:35:28] the Next Level Supply Chain with GS1 US. If you enjoyed today's show, please subscribe

[00:35:33] to our feed and explore more great episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget

[00:35:37] to share and follow us on social media. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.